uk resource centre for women in science, engineering and technology

I believe you are making a good point about the possible impact of the downturn on women. Past experience has shown that women are usually sacked in a higher proportion than men -- examples include IT slowdowns in the UK as well as the sad stories of our sisters in the former USSR.

This is not something that individual women can necessarily detect, we need broad collection of statistics. But I think we need a campaign now to protect those jobs -- waiting for 18 months and then saying "This should not have happened" will be a bit late.

Has anyone current experience to add to this thinking?

Hi Annette and Pam: its very hard to find data on the implications of the recession for women in SET. Like you, I'd be very interested to hear what others have to say - we need to find ways of tracking the impact on women and the equalities agenda.
More generally, there was an interesting piece in the Observer, 21 December (by Ruth Sunderland), lamenting the loss (up to now) of scientific talent to the financial sector 'because of the vastly superior rewards on offer', and questioning whether science and technology might become a better foundation for a forward-moving economy http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/dec/21/hi-tech-industry-development "We need to encourage scientific entrepreneurship, and we need to move to a low-carbon economy; this could be the phoenix that rises from the ashes of the slump." It is sometimes said that women may be most interested in science and engineering roles that of social benefit (certainly some of our bloggers have expressed that feeling), so perhaps tomorrow's world will need more women scientists, engineers etc.

As with any economic recession we would expect the most vulnerable groups in society to be most severely affected. Women are paid less; head up 9 out of 10 one parent families and are likely to have less financial reserves. We are currently looking for gender disaggregated data to get a true picture. Rolls Royce, Astra Zeneca and BAE were amongst the SET companies in the last quarter of 2008 to announce job losses; the manufacturing sector likewise. As with any threat there are also opportunities. The EU’s Economic Recovery Plan states the importance of continued investment in skills development and R and D in the high priority areas of energy, low carbon technologies and transport. Whilst we don’t have any hard evidence to indicate SET will ultimately be any safer than other occupational sectors; I was interviewed yesterday by the Daily Telegraph who were wanting to know how the unemployed could train as engineers…. Other people may have further anecdotal evidence to support this. Our challenge of course is to maximise the opportunities for women to secure employment and to get equal access to any new retraining/upskilling programmes when there will be increased competetion for places and the potential for the sectors to 'revert to type'.

I can only confirm the above observation. I started to look for contract work as a Business Analyst in September (having taken a career break to look after children and freelancing as a web designer part time) and have had little response.

I too have now concluded that with heightened competition I need to be 100% fit for purpose! Indeed, I am looking for grants now so that I can obtain a Prince2 certificate in Project Planning which is at least £1000. A lot of money to find - especially with a family and a husband (also in I.T) who may also lose his job in February. I am really starting to worry now. If that happens we are even considering Australia as they still appear to be desperate for I.T skills.

Interesting times.

Becky hi, I'm sorry to hear you are experiencing problems getting back into work. It may be worth you checking out our Technical Training Grants for support with fees - see the bursary button on this site. We do offer a very comprehensive range of services for women, especially those returning to SET so please tap into these if you haven’t already.

This week the Government have announced an intention to invest £140 million to create a further 35,000 apprenticeships in 2009-10. Interestingly this was announced through a visit by Gordon Brown to Rolls Royce - http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page17929 -spot the women engineers in the video clip.
Professor Marilyn Davidson from Manchester Business School and Nicola Smith, Senior Policy Officer from the TUC Economics Department were speaking on this morning's Woman's Hour about how women in the retail industry are clearly being hit hardest, especially those in low skilled positions. Perhaps the campaign which Pam Wain would like to see (above), should be directed at reskilling women from the retail industries in science, engineering and IT.…?

I've just had a wonderful phone call from Dr Sarah Rankin Reader at Imperial College and co authour of the stem cell study published in the American journal Cell Stem Cell today http://www1.imperial.ac.uk/medicine/people/s.rankin/ Print coverage can be read on http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/4176642/Scientists-discover-how-to-supercharge-the-bodys-own-healing-system.html

Sarah's call was to tell me that it was the 2008 UKRC conference (Representations of Women Scientists in the Mass Media) which gave her the confidence and impetus to raise her own profile in the media, something which she had previously been very averse to. After media training and a decision to be proactive with Imperial's press office, Sarah was able to capitalise on the opportunity of her team's new discovery published today. She has been on the Radio 4 'Today' programme this morning and will be interviewed on Channel 4 news tonight.

Feedack like this is so important to build a picture of the impact of our work - thank you Sarah!

Some say the Biotech industry will be the way forward out of the recession, other commentators say it will be severely cut back due to the high investment required.

Hi Sarah and Annette,
Many congratulations on the research, Sarah. I heard you on the radio this morning and you came over very well - clear and credible. I hope this means there will be funding to carry the work forward. I have been looking around a bit to find out how the biotechnology field may weather the recession. An ESRC conference in Scotland last autumn heard warnings that the global financial crisis 'could seriously delay the discovery and production of many new life-saving medicines'. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081027082121.htm
A recent analysis says there have been company closures and suggests that more than a third of the sector may be running on insufficient finance, but that some companies are well funded:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/marketforceslive/2008/nov/26/1

Meanwhile a major report from NESTA sees biotechnology as one of a few key industries because it is a UK strength and because it also addresses long term social and environmental needs http://www.nesta.org.uk/attacking-the-recession/

Hi Becky,
Just to follow on from Becky's comments re: training. At the UKRC we recognise that continuing with training and building sills is vital in a period of economic uncertainty. The UKRC offers a grant scheme top help women retrain or up-skill with the aim of helping them secure careers and progress within SET. The pilot scheme has been successful in supporting women who want to study a range of technical courses from masters in forensic sciences and civil engineering to postgraduate courses in biological recording and molecular evolution. The study needs to be equivalent to NVQ level 4 or higher (NVQ level 3 may also be considered where there is a strong justification). Up to £500 is available to help support course fees, travel to the place of study or childcare whilst undertaking study. The scheme re-opens today (12th Jan) for the remainder of the financial year. Please see
http://www.ukrc4setwomen.org.uk/html/women-and-girls/bursaries/ukrc-training-grants for more information.
Thanks,
Sarah

Thank you for your advice about ukrc training grants. I am just in the process of identifying the right course for my needs at the moment and I hope to apply shortly.
Thanks to your web site I have also joined WomenInTechnology.co.uk and BCSwomen and I am receiving lots of support in looking to return to work as a Business Analyst (particularly from Lucy Hunt, BCSWomen Membership Secretary who has been in the same posisiton - thank you).

Kindest Regards, Becky

Hi Becky. Its great to hear you have used our website to find networks such as womenintechnology.co.uk and BCSwomen which will keep you in the loop with information about your chosen career path. The UKRC will soon be launching a new area of our website which enables women to search for local networking groups and industry specific support. Networking can be vital in helping women get to where they want to be faster, and expanding their circles of support and information. A list of networks can currently be found at http://www.ukrc4setwomen.org/html/women-and-girls/networking/find-the-right-network-for-you
Please stay tuned to our website for our new improved pages.

I have 2 sons and a daughter who all show an aptitude for maths and science. I was encouraging them into engineering, but wonder whether this really is the best option - for my daughter especially. What is the likelihood that she could build a good career in such a male dominated sector that might be hit quite hard by the recession?

I was talking to one of our mentors this morning who said that her daughter had excelled at science at school and university but had not chosen to work in science as the careers advice she received had been poor and had made science sound rather dull as a profession. This mentor also suggested that work experience schemes for school children are not helpful as they tend to be very biased according to the gender and the class of the young person. I know that some careers advisers are excellent and very knowledgeable about SET, but it seems that we need to do more to enthuse young people just leaving university about the opportunities in SET. I'd be interested to hear people's ideas on this. I also wonder whether its time to abandon work experience schemes for school children altogether as we may be in danger of setting them on the wrong path from the outset. What do others think?

Hi Annette - thanks for starting this coversation. I believe the issues for Women is SET are the reflected in the general market. I have a few thoughts, they are based on my experience with my company http://www.LifeWorklife.co.uk - which is advocating the use of a more flexible approach to work.

General thoughts -
I am optimistic that we can trade through the economic down turn and that ultimately the business community is resourceful enough to get through intact in most cases. But then I would be - smarter, flexible, virtual companies like Hemingway Corporation will easily survive as we work on a no overhead basis anyway. I feel that there was a lot of scaremongering about the down turn and that in some cases this has exacerbated the problem - people have stopped trading/spending and this will ultimately make the problem worse.

The downturn has given some companies an excuse to cut back. There are also a lot of extras in most companies that we can do without on a day to day but will be important in the future of that company and the 'economic climate' has given companies the opportunity to restructure. Business should stop focusing on their short term profitability - now companies need to be brave and begin to take opportunities but the general panic has scared everyone off.

Everyone I speak to, in smaller companies or those who are self employed, is very busy, there is lots of trading - for not much cash but still trading and cash generally comes later in business anyway - it's the people in jobs that I feel for. Many people are facing the threat of redundancy - many have already been made redundant.

Effects on Women:
Negative - Simple economics dictates the rules in a buyer or sellers market. Looking at two candidates for the same job a business person is going to go for the one they feel they can get the most work out of. Though this is a generalisation there is some truth that in most families the women is the main carer for children. In my house these roles were slightly reversed but the conception is still the same. This means that an employer could select the man based on the fact that they have the same qualifications and he will have less distractions. Even though, in reality, it could be that the woman will be more efficient and effective - it is a risk - a leap of faith against the general rule so the man is the most likely candidate for selection. I have seem some evidence of this in some SME businesses lately, though more are getting better at hiring what they need and using

Positive - To lower the glass ceiling there needs to be wider adoption of flexible working practices. Flexible working makes more sense in an economic down turn as it is a way of lowering head count and cost per employee. Women allowed to work flexibly in their career are more likely to stay in that career and take the normal promotion routes through a business. Women not allowed to work flexibly generally change their career to work around their children and therefore their skills, perspective and experience is lost to the company and UK Plc - they are simply not there to be promoted.

One of my team who generally works in the independent space has taken a full time job because her partner is threatened with redundancy. Playing safe in this way is the normal reaction and may mean that she continues in that role after the recession ends or could mean that she comes back in to the independent space. Either way she will have lost valuable time and not been there to spot opportunities that will arise. For me, her departure from freelance life is indicative of the short term culture that now seems to be part of the business landscape - she can see the logic in my argument that being an employee is not really the safe option but its perceived as safer than being freelance - but she just cant stop herself - it makes me realize that its going to take a long time before people break the habits of the master slave relationship!

Things that could be done:

Adoption of smarter working and virtual employee networks would make a big difference to overhead as well as providing a good platform for the future. Instead of making teams redundant totally this will allow companies to reduce the cost of their overhead but keep the skills and experience. http://www.LifeWorklife.co.uk is campaigning to find one million flexible workers in 2009 - we are keen on helping people who have been made redundant identify their transferable skills. This will allow them to work flexibly for more than one company - spreading the risk and controlling their work-life balance at the same time. There is not a simple and easy way to recruit and maintain flexible workers and we feel that we have created the perfect platform for this. So my recommendation is a bit of a plug but it really is how I operate Hemingway Corporation so effectively and stay in business.

Dear Annette,

I wondered what your views were on 'leadership and women'. As you know recently we (the British Pharmacological Society) ran a leadership seminar for women. At this seminar Beverley Alimo-Metcalfe told us about research demonstrating the existence of very different styles of leadership. She suggested that the 'translational' style of leadership was more effective in the corporate world and that this could possibly extend to the academic sector too. This form of leadership (one that involves a democratic, 'listening' form of leadership as oppopsed to other forms) had many aspects that undeniably are characteristic of female 'stereotypes'. Apparently the professional world is waking up to this fact. Do you think that this kind of research will help women get into those elusive leadership positions?

Returning to Annette’s question about how the recession will affect SET women
My own experience has been two-fold. Two engineering job offers resulting from two interviews. One in a large, well-known organisation with extensive family friendly policies, but with the “potential new boss” still being somewhat old school, he turned down my request to take on the job part time (4 days), and withdrew his offer saying he had a suitable second candidate. The other job fell through because the credit crunch intervened before the new Personnel Director was ensconced enough to sign off the papers for new recruits.
Whilst in the first case I suspect that being female did not help, I am sure that in the second the result would have been the same whatever my sex. I use my experiences as an illustration; - I am not convinced that women will necessarily come out worse in a recession.
It is though an opportunity: I was completely re-energised yesterday by hearing snippets of the Radio 4 interview of Mary Quant (now 75). Her view that the recession should be seen as a short term diversion from growth, that out of “hardship” comes innovation and opportunity – a chance to try something completely new.
So, perhaps this recession is an opportunity for the entrenched (male) middle manager to be persuaded into trying something new – on monetary grounds. - Flexible working could be just the opportunity they are looking for - an opportunity to reduce their costs without losing skills or incurring the need to recruit at a later date when times are better again. We should encourage hard pressed SET companies to be BOLD and GO OUT and ask their staff who would like to work part time! Look at the pounds they’d be saving and the improved motivation they’d achieve.

Hi Annette

Mindful of the challenges faced by women wanting to work in the IT sector, BCS and the recruitment portal womenintechnology.co.uk are putting on a FREE recruitment showcase aimed at women called W-Tech 2009 http://www.w-tech2009.co.uk on 3 February at 2 Savoy Place, London, which we hope will be one of the biggest IT recruitment events in the UK. Microsoft is the headline sponsor, which shows that big companies do believe that women are worth investing in.

Delegates will be able to meet with recruiters, get valuable interview and CV advice, and connect with similarly interested women. There will also be a range of speakers, workshops, and a champagne networking event in the evening.

We have also produced a guide for women who want to take a career break, or planning to return to work after one, to help them improve their confidence to go back into the workplace, which is available from http://www.wtech-event.co.uk

We have received over 1000 registrations so far, a real indicator of the level of enthusiasm about IT and demand for information on working in the SET sector among women. Getting on in the IT jobs market is proving to be a tough challenge for both men and women in the current climate, but employers will always be on the look-out for talented individuals. W-Tech 2009 provides a real opportunity for women wanting to get on, or get back into, the IT market to fine tune those all important soft skills and connect with some of the smartest employers in the industry.

Hope to see you there
Jan

Thank you so much for such a range of responses and for providing much food for thought. I'll focus on flexible working in this response but will come back on the other issues you raise over the next few days. I absolutely agree Kirsten that there is a business case for continuing with policies like flexible working in response to the onset of recession and quite clearly SET workplaces can have distinctive features that need to be addressed when promoting, supporting and implementing flexible working. There is a strong case for well promoted and supported flexible working opportunities to support women's engagement. However, there is a challenge. You may remember that Peter Mendleson announced last October that the proposed extension to the right to request flexible working, due to take effect from April 2009, may be dropped in response to the current economic climate -this clearly reinforces a message that flexible working is a burden to employers rather than an enabler. However, there is a growing body of evidence to suggest that benefits like increases in productivity, more motivated and happy employees, lower staff turnover and a reduction in sickness absence, more than make up for the perceived added cost of implementing the proposed extension. The results from the government's consultation on the extension have not yet been announced and it will be interesting to see how this is positioned when they are.

In response to Elizabeth's question above - there is every reason to continue to promote careers in engineering to your children, especially your daughter who may not get this encouragement elsewhere. There is a view that we should engineer our way out of the recession - new growth sectors which have been identified are all engineering related - low carbon technology, transport and renewable energy are some of them. I think dissuading your daughter not to go into engineering because of the recession we are currently in, is possibly too reactive to the here and now, rather than looking to the future and the wide range of opportunities an engineering education could bring her. Depending where her interests lie the careers in engineering and from an engineering qualifications are wide and varied. There are opportunities to work in research and development, to working abroad on aid and infrastructure projects to designing or leading a team of 400 designing the stadium for the 2012 games - a project one the UKRC mentors is currently working on. Knowing how and why things work actually gives you a lot of confidence in your every day life and that is enormously important for women, who are often held back by lack of confidence. Of course it can be tough in certain environments and if your daughter does pursue a career in engineering, she would be well advised to join women's networks (see Ayo's entry above) or membership bodies like the Women's Engineering Society, because being able to meet and share experience with other women in similar situations can often help you get through difficult patches.

A depressing (and lengthy) article in yesterday's Observer: 'The real victims of this credit crunch? Women'. It doesn't identify or analyse employment trends within SET, but looks at the recession more broadly.... 'the recession may well look like a case of highly-paid men creating a mess, and low-paid women suffereing the consequences'. 'If the gender aspect of the economic crisis is ignored, it could jeopardise the progress towards equality at work, and threaten the financial independence many women prize and have struggled to achieve, as well as making families more vulnerable....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jan/18/women-credit-crunch-ruth-sunderland
A short piece by Jenni Murray of Woman's Hour: http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jan/18/recession-murray

I too have been reading with concern the articles raising the issue of women being the real victims of the credit-crunch, however I do have some sympathy with Annemieke's point that the recession could actually be an opportunity. Some years ago I was working in a multinational engineering company going through a particularly bad time with no orders being placed in the entire sector for several years. Many redundancies were made, down to an almost skeleton staff of the best technically trained people we had - those years were used to train and develop those people to be ready to train new entrants when business got back to normal - I too was offered an opportunity to become the first female General Manager - a real break with tradition! I am hoping that there are some beacons of good practice out there in the industrial landscape that are planning for the upturn when it comes and that there will be more breaks with tradition as people take a few risks and try out new and innovative ideas!!

Good morning all - we've got a lovely blue sky here in Yorkshire today! Thanks for the great range of questions, experiences and observations posted.
In response to Amrita's question on women and leadership potential. - research definitely helps as it keeps the issue on the agenda. Corporates are waking up to women's leadership potential which can only be a good thing in the long term for women; for the cultures of organisations and possibly business itself. If women had been better represented in leadership and at board level in the finance sector would the sector (and the country) be in such a mess now? If women had behaved in the way the men have in the finance sector, we would have been hung drawn and quartered and ridiculed as a gender as incapable of leadership! The McKinsey report from October 2008 - Women Matter 2 - http://www.mckinsey.com/locations/paris/home/womenmatter.asp - reinforces the message that women at the top are good for business - they create a competitive advantage because their leadership practices are what busienss are now looking for. They found in a survey of over a thousand managers that the leadership behaviours more frequently displayed by women in management teams are identified as the ones needed to meet tomorrow's business challenges.

In terms of accelerating progress towards gender equality on boards - Norway clearly takes the lead having gone from 6% representation on public private boards in 2002 to 40% and rising in 2008. If you want to find out more, one of the workshops at the UKRC's forthcoming conference on March 12th http://www.ukrc4setwomen.org/html/news-and-events/events/?event_id=976

will focus on women in leadership and will include a speaker on the Norway quota system. In the UK women represent just 26% of participants on SET public boards. You are probably aware of the UKRC programme to support women into public appointments, if not see http://www.ukrc4setwomen.org/html/women-and-girls/moving-up/

Wow! This discussion has really taken off. I am glad, because so many don't.

It is encouraging that no-one thinks they are seeing identifiable gender discrimination. However, one thing we have achieved over the last few decades is stopping people talking openly about their discriminatory attitudes, so we are more reliant on looking for suspicious numbers. Now if we had 100 Annamiekes and somehow they all failed to get jobs, we would be very very unhappy. One Annameike cannot tell if that company never hired anyone who asked about "prime time working" (a splendid new euphemism from Daphnet), and never gave internal promotion to any mother who exercised their legal right to request flexible working.

And the TUC have just issued their report on "Women and Recession" http://www.touchstoneblog.org.uk/2009/01/women-and-recession-how-will-this-downturn-affect-women-at-work/ the page has an excellent short discussion. As with American figures that I have been looking at, they are saying that overall women are slightly less likely than men to lose their jobs in a recession. But they are tying this to the vast number of very poorly paid jobs that women do. I still worry about professional women!

Oh yes, another good new slogan "Diversity is a form of excellence".

Annette Williams - New year greetings from the Director of UKRC is a nice post. It looks that you are highly expert blogger. Your post is an excellent example of why I keep coming back to read your excellent quality content that is forever updated.
Thank you